Curse

MSecorsky · Oct 26, 2005, 07:56 PM // 19:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by toastgodsupreme

Another reason could be that they saw it show up in their bar and went "Oh look, a gay ranger spirit, who cares, the ranger will be on his ass in no time and the spirit's effects won't matter."

There are still many people out there that have no idea what the majority of ranger spirits do because they never bother to take a second to hover over with their mouse and read the desc.

I'm sure there's a lot of truth in that, but also I suspect that the actual distraction of combat may have taken folks minds off of the spirit to the point that no one got around to killing it. I know one group I was with, the monk was always primary target it seemed, with people running past the spirit to get to him.

Rajamic · Oct 26, 2005, 08:06 PM // 20:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

I'd imagine six of them, even with the bug fixed could be a bit annoying if they cycled who was casting it well enough, and if counters weren't packed.

Don't think that would work. They'd only get in 3 hits max before Thunderclap ends due to low energy. Unless they actually took turns attacking individually, they all hit pretty much as one and completely drain the first casters energy and end Thunderclap right there on the first knockdown.

Beqxter · Oct 26, 2005, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Winter is used so infrequently that anyone who hasn't run a ranger up, or who hasn't been paying a whole heck of a lot of attention, probably has no idea what it is or how to counter it. Any decent TA or Tombs team will know what's going on and whack the spirit, but I'm not at all surprised to see the spirit survive in CA.

Chev of Hardass · Oct 26, 2005, 08:08 PM // 20:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

I'd imagine six of them, even with the bug fixed could be a bit annoying if they cycled who was casting it well enough, and if counters weren't packed.

That would never work, Thunderclap is not nearly a good enough skill for that.

At 12 Air Magic you loose 9 energy or thunderclap "ends." So, if it were fixed and you had 6 warriors all equiped with Thunderclap and a lightning hilt, each Thunderclap will end in 3-4 knockdowns, making the total duration last less than one volley from the warrior team.

A single warrior at 1.33 swings per second, will get 3-4 seconds of thunderclap before it ends.

So, it will take 5-6 castings in the 20 second regharge time of Thunderclap to keep it on a target.

In the 20 second cooldown of each of the warriors they will gain less than 20 energy, so there is a good chance that using sprint, or anyother energy skill, will make it so there is a lag from when a instance of Thunderclap ends and the next warrior can cast it.

Add in a couple of hex removals and your whole stragedy is eliminated.

I believe noone would use Thunderclap unless it was bugged. Except for some boss Monsters that have seemingly endless energy pools anyway.

MSecorsky · Oct 26, 2005, 08:09 PM // 20:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rajamic

Don't think that would work. They'd only get in 3 hits max before Thunderclap ends due to low energy. Unless they actually took turns attacking individually, they all hit pretty much as one and completely drain the first casters energy and end Thunderclap right there on the first knockdown.

Right, then before everyone's back up, second one casts it, whack - boom - fall... meanwhile first caster's energy regens and everyone's sitting in the dirt. It's not the clap ending I'm thinking about, but the cyclical knockdowns.

One and Two · Oct 27, 2005, 02:22 AM // 02:22

They'd better fix thunderclap before the weekend.

And I hope they don't put it in patch notes. I want to have a good laugh.

Mystical · Oct 27, 2005, 09:31 AM // 09:31

Mo/E with Life Bond on everyone, Bal's Spirit on himself. Blessed Signet then Thunderclap.

MSecorsky · Oct 27, 2005, 03:05 PM // 15:05

Someone in CA was spamming about a build being released Saturday to fix the bugs, but I have no clue as to how reliable of a source he was.

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 27, 2005, 08:27 PM // 20:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

Right, then before everyone's back up, second one casts it, whack - boom - fall... meanwhile first caster's energy regens and everyone's sitting in the dirt. It's not the clap ending I'm thinking about, but the cyclical knockdowns.

Congratulations, you are using all your energy to duplicate the effects of a pair of hammer warriors, minus damage.

Thunderclap, in its un-bugged state, is a useless skill. Short of a buff in a future update I never expect to see it again once fixed - just as I never saw it prior to the discovery of the bug.

It's a shame really - in its bugged state it's actually a useful and reasonably well-balanced skill.

MSecorsky · Oct 27, 2005, 08:40 PM // 20:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Congratulations, you are using all your energy to duplicate the effects of a pair of hammer warriors, minus damage.

Thunderclap, in its un-bugged state, is a useless skill. Short of a buff in a future update I never expect to see it again once fixed - just as I never saw it prior to the discovery of the bug.

It's a shame really - in its bugged state it's actually a useful and reasonably well-balanced skill.

Heh heh.. not me. Others are more than welcome too.

I have noticed last night much much less abuse of thunderclap in CA than earlier, as well as winter popping up more often.

RTSFirebat · Oct 27, 2005, 09:01 PM // 21:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

Congratulations, you are using all your energy to duplicate the effects of a pair of hammer warriors, minus damage.

Thunderclap, in its un-bugged state, is a useless skill. Short of a buff in a future update I never expect to see it again once fixed - just as I never saw it prior to the discovery of the bug.

It's a shame really - in its bugged state it's actually a useful and reasonably well-balanced skill.

I don't really call sitting on my arse for 10-20 seconds while two warriors beat me to death my idea of 'well-balanced' skill....

Eet GnomeSmasher · Oct 27, 2005, 09:13 PM // 21:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wasteland Squidget

It's a shame really - in its bugged state it's actually a useful and reasonably well-balanced skill.

Well balanced?!? You must be one of those justisfying exploiting it in the arenas...

Being flat on the ground for the entire match is not well balanced. Without specific counters it's better than any form of interrupt or knockdown out there AND it's AOE, how can you call it well balanced? Also, it takes NO skill or timing to interrupt/knockdown someone. You can just spam attacks.

Simply put, if one skill is far far superior than any other of the same type (knockdown, interrupts) than it IS overpowered.

Caelus The Fallen · Oct 27, 2005, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Alas, in its bugger state, its too powerful; in its origional state, its too weak. Hopefully ANet can find that happy medium.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Oct 27, 2005, 10:54 PM // 22:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caelus The Fallen

Alas, in its bugger state, its too powerful; in its origional state, its too weak. Hopefully ANet can find that happy medium.

This I can agree with....and I hope they'll fix it soon. Random arenas are even more of a crap hole with the TC abusers in it now. I've started bringing stances to counter it but even with those it's useless because if your nearby teammate is hit you'll get knocked down as well. And no I have no hex removal since I'm a Ranger/Warrior.

MSecorsky · Oct 27, 2005, 10:59 PM // 22:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

This I can agree with....and I hope they'll fix it soon. Random arenas are even more of a crap hole with the TC abusers in it now. I've started bringing stances to counter it but even with those it's useless because if your nearby teammate is hit you'll get knocked down as well. And no I have no hex removal since I'm a Ranger/Warrior.

You're a ranger... take winter. Works for me. TC nullified.

NightOwl · Oct 27, 2005, 11:09 PM // 23:09

Recast on Winter is much longer than on TC. Anybody with half a brain would kill the spirit before Thunderclapping people.

Eet GnomeSmasher · Oct 27, 2005, 11:11 PM // 23:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

You're a ranger... take winter. Works for me. TC nullified.

Yep. But I'm still going to avoid the CA's for a while. It's boring now anyway since every other group has a TC exploiter...what's the point in playing there right now...

MSecorsky · Oct 27, 2005, 11:13 PM // 23:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by NightOwl

Recast on Winter is much longer than on TC. Anybody with half a brain would kill the spirit before Thunderclapping people.

You're talking about CA. I've had people run right past the spirit like it's a rock and nothing more. If you want to do random, it's safe enough. Besides, cast it close to where you stage... more often than not once battle's engaged people won't even get that far. Just remember to stay within it's range.

Quote:

Yep. But I'm still going to avoid the CA's for a while. It's boring now anyway since every other group has a TC exploiter...what's the point in playing there right now...

Hardly saw any last night... saw a lot of winters being cast. Maybe it's running its course already.

Guardian of the Light · Oct 27, 2005, 11:33 PM // 23:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by MSecorsky

You're talking about CA. I've had people run right past the spirit like it's a rock and nothing more. If you want to do random, it's safe enough. Besides, cast it close to where you stage... more often than not once battle's engaged people won't even get that far. Just remember to stay within it's range.

Hardly saw any last night... saw a lot of winters being cast. Maybe it's running its course already.

I saw neither last night but I did get a lot of people asking me if my W/E was a TC build

its actually Flame based with sword spike attacks like conjure flame+Hunderd Blades (I love that combo), pure strike, Gasrath Slash, Final Thrust which if you use it right can be good.

However I'm pretty sure there is other bug with simliar skills and Anet is checking them to make sure everything is in order and then clear all the skill bugs

However I have seen a few ppl who think the description is bugged

Person: thunderclap's description is bugged it doesn't end when your energy hits 0
Me:Its not the description its the skill itself it's sposed to end when your energy hits 0
person: How do YOU know
Me:

Wasteland Squidget · Oct 27, 2005, 11:59 PM // 23:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eet GnomeSmasher

Well balanced?!? You must be one of those justisfying exploiting it in the arenas...

Being flat on the ground for the entire match is not well balanced. Without specific counters it's better than any form of interrupt or knockdown out there AND it's AOE, how can you call it well balanced? Also, it takes NO skill or timing to interrupt/knockdown someone. You can just spam attacks.

Simply put, if one skill is far far superior than any other of the same type (knockdown, interrupts) than it IS overpowered.

In large-scale battles it's on the weak side as-is, because of how ridiculously easy it is to counter.

Not only have you got the usual warrior counters (blindness, Block/Evade, kiting, ect) but a single hex removal will own the Thunderclapper, turning them into a nothing character until their spell recharges, at which point you can just remove the hex again.

As far as counters...

Monk - Holy Veil (run it on yourself at the beginning of the fight), Contemplation of Purity, Guardian, Aegis.
Mesmer - Inspired Hex, Shatter Hex, Interrupts, Ether Lord (keep their energy at 0 after the first cast of Thunderclap), Distortion + Spirit of Failure.
Warrior - Balanced Stance, any Block/evade stance.
Ranger - Whirling Defense, Dust Trap, Throw Dirt, Winter.
Elementalist - Block/Evade enchantment, Blurred Vision, Blinding Flash, Iron Mist (vs. Wa/Es). Fire eles will have issues though.
Necromancers - Less counters; Faintheartedness is your best bet, but you'll have to rely on other's help to a degree.

And the best part, most of these are useful skills anyway, and you shouldn't have any trouble fitting one or two into your build.

As for balancing it against other Knockdown skills - the thing to remember is that it comes at the cost of all your energy, which no other Knockdown or Interrupt skill does.

So use Thunderclap in its current state and you cut off use of non-adrenaline attack skills, Sprint, spells, maintained enchants, nearly any stance in the game, any non-signet healing...the list goes on and on.

And all of this for what, a single-target shutdown that gets owned by one Remove Hex?

TC is being used in arenas because no one is prepared to counter it, but already in 8v8 it's far too vulnerable for a solid build. Thunderclap is like Illusionary Weaponry - a more powerful effect than most elites, but one Enchant/Hex removal and you get to curl up in a corner and cry for a while.

I did use TC for a bit in Arenas, before this was confirmed to be a bug in the skill rather than the description, but it wasn't long before I swapped into more effective builds with a TC counter. One counter and all those TCers in the arena become so much fodder, weakening the other team rather than strengthening them.

So where does that leave you? You can complain on the forums and swear off PvP until Arenanet nerfs the skill back into uselessness, or you can adapt a bit. Sub a counter into your bar and get back to actually playing the game.

Those that take the former route will get no sympathy from me.